{"id":3060,"date":"2020-01-28T08:30:00","date_gmt":"2020-07-01T12:30:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/jeffgreenfield.com\/?p=2882"},"modified":"2020-07-26T10:42:03","modified_gmt":"2020-07-26T14:42:03","slug":"special-edition-the-impact-of-losing-third-party-cookies-on-mta-the-advertising-ecosystem","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/jeffgreenfield.com\/special-edition-the-impact-of-losing-third-party-cookies-on-mta-the-advertising-ecosystem\/","title":{"rendered":"The Impact of Losing Third Party Cookies On MTA &#038; the Advertising Ecosystem"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"player_container player-3060\" ><div class=\"spp_player_textabove\"><b>  <\/b><\/div><div id=\"sm2-3060\" class=\"playercontent sm2-bar-ui compact flat full-width full-width-player\"><div class=\"bd sm2-main-controls\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-inline-element sm2-button-element\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-button-bd\" style=\"background: transparent url() repeat scroll 0% 0% \/ cover ;\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"spp-player-background\"> <\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"#play\" class=\"sm2-inline-button play-pause\"><\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"loader\" style=\"display:none;\"><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"eq\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"bar bar-1\"><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"bar bar-2\"><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"bar bar-3\"><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"bar bar-4\"><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div><div class=\"sm2-inline-element sm2-inline-status progressbar\">\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-button-bd\" style=\"\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"playerpitch0\" style=\"display:none;\">0.75x<\/div>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"playerpitch1\">1x<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"playerpitch2\" style=\"display:none;\">1.25x<\/div>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"playerpitch3\" style=\"display:none;\">1.5x<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"playerpitch4\" style=\"display:none;\">2x<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-button-bd\" style=\"\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"secrewind\"><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-playlist\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-playlist-target\"><\/div>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-progress\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-progress-bd\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-progress-track\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-progress-bar1\" style=\"display:none;\"><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-progress-bar\"><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-progress-ball\"><div class=\"icon-overlay\"><\/div><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-row timestamp\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-inline-time timestamp\">0:00<\/div><div class=\"sm2-inline-duration timestamp\">39:50<\/div><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-inline-element sm2-button-element sm2-volume\" style=\"0\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t   <div class=\"sm2-button-bd\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"sm2-inline-button sm2-volume-control volume-shade\"><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"#volume\" class=\"sm2-inline-button sm2-volume-control\" style=\"\"><\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t   <\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t  <\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"bd sm2-playlist-drawer sm2-element\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"sm2-playlist-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<ul class=\"sm2-playlist-bd\"><li><a href=\"https:\/\/traffic.libsyn.com\/secure\/thisisattribution\/TIA-special-edition.mp3?dest-id=1465385\">The Impact of Losing Third Party Cookies On MTA &#038; the Advertising Ecosystem<\/a><\/li><\/ul>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div><div class=\"sppbuttons\" style=\"\"><a class=\"button-itunes\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"\" href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/this-is-attribution\/id1478772556?ls=1\">Apple Podcasts<\/a><a class=\"button-g-play\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly90aGlzaXNhdHRyaWJ1dGlvbi5saWJzeW4uY29tL3Jzcw==\">Google Podcasts<\/a><a class=\"button-embed\" rel=\"modal:open\"  id=\"button-embed\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"#ex1\">Player Embed<\/a><a class=\"button-share\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"#\">Share<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"webui-popover-content share-buttons\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/sharer\/sharer.php?u=https:\/\/jeffgreenfield.com\/special-edition-the-impact-of-losing-third-party-cookies-on-mta-the-advertising-ecosystem\/\" title=\"Share on Facebook\" target=\"_blank\" class=\"facebook\"><i class=\"fa fa-facebook\"><\/i><\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/share?text=The+Impact+of+Losing+Third+Party+Cookies+On+MTA+%26+the+Advertising+Ecosystem -&url=https:\/\/jeffgreenfield.com\/special-edition-the-impact-of-losing-third-party-cookies-on-mta-the-advertising-ecosystem\/\" title=\"Share on Twitter\" target=\"_blank\" class=\"twitter\"><i class=\"fa fa-twitter\"><\/i><\/a>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div><a class=\"button-sppreview\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"http:\/\/getpodcast.reviews\/id\/1478772556\">Leave a Review<\/a><a class=\"button-spplisten\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"javascript:window.open('https:\/\/traffic.libsyn.com\/secure\/thisisattribution\/TIA-special-edition.mp3?dest-id=1465385','','width=500,height=250')\">Listen in a New Window<\/a><a class=\"button-download\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"https:\/\/traffic.libsyn.com\/secure\/thisisattribution\/TIA-special-edition.mp3?dest-id=1465385\">Download<\/a><a class=\"button-soundcloud\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"\">SoundCloud<\/a><a class=\"button-stitcher\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"\">Stitcher<\/a><a class=\"button-sppandroid\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"http:\/\/subscribeonandroid.com\/thisisattribution.libsyn.com\/rss\">Subscribe on Android<\/a><a class=\"button-spprss\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"https:\/\/thisisattribution.libsyn.com\/rss\">Subscribe via RSS<\/a><a class=\"button-spotify\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/3Wb8XoX2r9dqMBrbEe6K0b?si=U4Ki8cwXSJCy7mKZWZEQMQ\">Spotify<\/a><a class=\"spp-button-custom1\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"\"><\/a><a class=\"spp-button-custom2\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"\"><\/a><a class=\"spp-button-custom3\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"\"><\/a><a class=\"spp-button-custom4\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"\"><\/a><a class=\"spp-button-custom5\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"\"><\/a><a class=\"spp-button-custom6\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"display:none !important;\" href=\"\"><\/a><\/div><\/div>\n<p>Google\u2019s announcement about the removal of third-party cookies sent shockwaves thru both the advertising world and Wall Street. \u00a0Is this an Attribution Apocalypse or a necessary cleanse to the advertising ecosystem?<\/p>\n<p>The changes\u00a0and potential impact was the topic of an industry conference call\u00a0held with Shyam Patil,\u00a0Internet Analyst, at Susquehanna Securities and C3 Metrics Co-Founder and Chief Attribution Officer, Jeff Greenfield.<\/p>\n<p><u>Shyam Patil:<\/u><br \/>\nI\u2019m Shyam Patil, the Internet Analyst at Susquehanna. Welcome to our conference call with Jeff Greenfield, Co-Founder and Chief Attribution Officer at C3 Metrics. If anyone in the audience has any questions, please feel free to email them to me during the call. What we\u2019re going to try to do with the structure of this call, we\u2019re going to try to just go through what Google is doing, the time frame, the near term impact to companies. Then we\u2019re going to talk about what happens in a couple of years, talk about some of the specific changes that are going to happen then. And then the impact to companies in the ecosystem at that point. Jeff, you also mentioned that there\u2019s some new information that came out last night, so maybe we can weave that in as well. But to start out, can you talk about exactly what Google is doing and what the time frame is?<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nThe big announcement that Google made, is that they will be blocking third-party cookies. This is very similar to the change that\u2019s been made both in Safari and Firefox previously. To really understand it, let\u2019s step back a little bit and talk a little bit about the difference between a first-party cookie and a third-party cookie, because that\u2019ll help put a frame of reference on things.<\/p>\n<p>Cookies are part of computer code. They\u2019re how computers and computer language talk to each other. It\u2019s part of JavaScript, it\u2019s part of PHP. This is part of how things operate. So, it\u2019s fascinating that these browsers are actually getting involved in blocking stuff like this.<\/p>\n<p>A first-party cookie is when you go to a website and there\u2019s a certain level of personalization that\u2019s there. You go to Amazon and you\u2019re automatically logged in and they say, \u201cHi Jeff.\u201d Or you go to the New York Times and you\u2019re automatically logged in. So first-party cookies are cookies that are set by the page that you\u2019re actually on. And those are what make the digital experience an \u2018actual\u2019 experience. It\u2019s what makes it comfortable to you and it\u2019s not like you\u2019re starting from ground zero.<\/p>\n<p>A third-party cookie is a cookie that\u2019s set by someone that is not the owner of that website. So if you go to the New York Times and there happens to be an ad there for a shoe company, there may be a cookie that\u2019s set by that shoe company or that is set by that ad server. That\u2019s a third-party cookie, because it\u2019s different than the site that you\u2019re actually on.<\/p>\n<p>The whole digital experience has been about this combination of first-party cookies and third-party cookies and the whole advertising ecosystem, including the ability to target, has been built on third-party cookies. That ecosystem is extended by what you would call a cookie sync. Where, somebody who has first-party cookies syncs with somebody else who has first-party cookies and then they come up with a \u2018secondary\u2019 cookie. This secondary cookie would allow them to find individuals based upon their preferences, what type of stuff they\u2019ve bought, maybe their age, maybe some other demographic information. And that\u2019s been the entire basis of the advertising ecosystem.<\/p>\n<p>When Safari and Firefox did away with third-party cookies, it was a hit, but it wasn\u2019t that big of a hit. Primarily because most people around the world tend to access the digital landscape using a Chrome browser. Most companies just shifted most of their targeting over to Chrome, advertisers accepted the fact that Safari was tough to target, but they didn\u2019t worry about it because the vast majority of people were using Chrome.<\/p>\n<p>So this announcement is a big deal.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s a real big deal to a lot of companies, and it\u2019s also a huge deal to brands and advertisers. Because in their world, they don\u2019t know what\u2019s going to happen next. It\u2019s forced a lot of questions, and it\u2019s causing a lot of people to start to rethink strategies.<\/p>\n<p><u>Shyam Patil:<\/u><br \/>\nGreat. That\u2019s a very helpful intro. I know this is a topic that all of us are trying to figure out. If anyone in the audience has questions, just please feel free to email them over to me and I can try to weave them in. Can you talk about, there\u2019s kind of a near term and then there\u2019s what they might do in two years. Can you just talk about right now or in February, what\u2019s going to change?<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nIn February, they\u2019re doing a way with non-secure cookies. Most internet traffic today, over the last couple of years, has shifted to what they call \u2018SSL\u2019 or a secure socket layer, so that any information that you send across the web, there\u2019s a secure handshake that goes on. So that if you\u2019re logging into your bank, everyone knows that little lock and key you want to see there. Sometimes you go to URLs, the URL name is in green, which means it\u2019s really been validated. And you want to make sure that whenever you\u2019re accessing webpages that the actual webpage itself is totally secure, so that somebody can\u2019t get in the middle and get your information or take your credentials to log in.<\/p>\n<p>For years, a lot of tracking technology and ad servers wouldn\u2019t use SSL primarily because, especially in the early days, to send traffic over the web securely actually cost more money. You needed to get individual IP addresses, which were very costly. And so everybody just used the regular transmission settings.<\/p>\n<p>So what\u2019s happening in February primarily is that, if you have a cookie and it is setting in a non-secure manner, it\u2019s going to be stopped. And so all that means is, is that anyone who\u2019s part of this advertising ecosystem, they just have to make an update. Now, the issue is, is that you may have code that\u2019s on a non-secure page. Most webpages today, if you try to go to the non-secure version, it\u2019ll automatically redirect to the secure version.<\/p>\n<p>But there\u2019s a lot of older webpages that are still out there, that have a lot of older computer code, and you don\u2019t want to be stopped from collecting data from there. What most in the advertising ecosystem are doing is that if their tag is called in a non-secure manner, they\u2019re just going to redirect to the secure one. It\u2019s just a quick update that folks have to do. More than anything else, it\u2019s just a note from Google to the advertising ecosystem that says, \u201cHey, this is the first thing that\u2019s going to happen.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>This happens in February where non-secure is not going to be allowed. You will have to make some updates to your code. After that, things are going to be the status quo until about two years from now, and that\u2019s when the big change is going to come, and that\u2019s when all third-party cookies are going to be blocked. It doesn\u2019t sound like a lot of time, but it is a lot of time if you put the right minds behind it. And now there\u2019s an incentive to start thinking differently because if you don\u2019t, your business model is going to be completely gone in terms of how you target, how you track, and how you determine that what you\u2019re doing is actually being effective.<\/p>\n<p><u>Shyam Patil:<\/u><br \/>\nIs this a big deal? Does non-secure change, is that going to be a big deal you think? Is that going to be disruptive?<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nIt\u2019s not disruptive. It\u2019s a smart move that people should make. Truth be told, Google should have done this a long time ago. Because what it does is, by having stuff that\u2019s non-secure out there, someone can think that they\u2019re loading one thing and they\u2019re actually loading something else, so there\u2019s not that secure handshake. This quells for the moment some of the transmissions of potential malware and other issues. This is a cleaning house maneuver on behalf of Chrome. They should have done this a while ago. It\u2019s not a big deal for most of the teams that need to do this at all.<\/p>\n<p><u>Shyam Patil:<\/u><br \/>\nI think you already answered this question, but in terms of the near term impacts, so we\u2019re talking changes that are coming into February. What, if any, do you see on the likes of Trade Desk, Criteo, LiveRamp, Facebook, Google, or even some of the advertisers like Booking, any impact to those guys with the changes coming in February?<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nThey\u2019ll have zero changes to what\u2019s going on in February. They\u2019ve already adapted to these changes. All of those folks are very sophisticated teams. Most of this should have already been handled ahead of time.<\/p>\n<p><u>Shyam Patil:<\/u><br \/>\nYou talked about this a little bit, but maybe to go into more detail. What are the big things that happen in two years? Maybe the specifics there. Maybe you can weave this into your response is just how will user tracking and targeted advertising be done at that point?<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nThat\u2019s where things get really interesting. So remember, the entire digital ecosystem has been based upon these third-party cookies. And the reason that they\u2019ve done this is because, let\u2019s say my company is jeff.com. And I\u2019ve got ads that appear across all of these different websites. So if you see an ad on the New York Times and it\u2019s from the jeff.com ad network, I\u2019m going to set a jeff.com cookie that\u2019s a third-party cookie. Now when you go to boston.com I\u2019m going to be able to see that I just saw you on the New York Times because I\u2019m going to be able to read and write that jeff.com cookie. I can\u2019t see any New York Times cookie because I\u2019m not on the New York Times page.<\/p>\n<p>So right there is the importance of that third-party cookie \u2013 it allows me to see you across all of these different sites. You may read about it where it\u2019s called \u2018cross-site tracking\u2019, but it\u2019s part of the nature of third-party cookies. That aspect is going to go away. Companies have all tested and tried different things. Going back in the early days, people were using flash cookies because everybody in the world had Adobe Flash on their systems. And the greatest thing about Flash is that you can put information in Flash and it would always be there. You could always find it. And it was cookie-less, which was great.<\/p>\n<p>Of course Flash is not supported anymore and it stopped working and automatically getting called in the browsers. So that was gone. So then what companies did, is they did what a lot of the fraud companies do, which is digital fingerprinting. And a digital fingerprint looks at a combination of different aspects. So your operating system, your browser and versions, all of that data, all the way up to how many different fonts you have installed on your system.<\/p>\n<p>And what they found is that if they could pull like eight or nine of these different aspects out, they could do a very good job at identifying you on a statistical basis. They wouldn\u2019t know it was absolutely you but could do a good job of identifying a unique computer. Safari and Firefox in particular have done a really good job at stopping that practice and Chrome is also doing that as well, so digital fingerprinting is gone too.<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s other methods that companies utilize. One of the big building blocks of the internet is the addressable aspect, so that every computer has to be coming from some sort of address, what they would call an IP or an internet protocol address. All IP Addresses are unique and you can link these back to specific households and to specific companies as well. Where it gets difficult is that, if you\u2019re part of a company, everyone at the company appears to becoming from the same IP address. So that makes targeting a little bit difficult.<\/p>\n<p>A lot of companies in the advertising ecosystem are going to start utilizing some sort of proprietary identification, which will be based upon location with some aspects of early digital fingerprinting \u2013 such as operating system, browser, etc. In addition, many companies have direct relationships with the sites in which the ads are being served. Criteo is a great example. Criteo works with almost 20,000 publishers. One of the unique selling prospects of Criteo is their direct relationships.<\/p>\n<p>If you go back to the birth of this whole digital ecosystem, it was all about the publishers, the Yahoos of the world. They controlled the ad buying experience for marketers. All of a sudden we got into the programmatic world where it didn\u2019t matter who you were, because everybody was providing inventory for programmatic and we moved away from direct relationships. Back in the early days, every publisher had their own sales force to sell directly to advertisers. As programmatic grew, direct sales (also know as IO sales) started to shrink.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re going to see a change back to where publishers are saying, the inventory I have is unique. And the reason for that is because, I know who my readers are, I know what they read, I know where they live, I have all this demographic information on them. And it\u2019s more valuable to me to have a direct relationship with people with advertisers and a direct sales force, versus selling everything via a programmatic exchange.<\/p>\n<p>It doesn\u2019t mean the exchanges are going away, but we\u2019re going to see a move more towards more private exchanges and a move back to direct relationships. With a direct relationship, Criteo can get data from a tracking perspective pushed back to them that will bypass Chrome. And it does that through an API where the publisher themselves will send information back directly to Criteo servers and that\u2019s what\u2019s going to happen.<\/p>\n<p>And what that allows both the publisher and someone like a Criteo to do is to say, \u201cHey, we\u2019re going to live in our own kind of world, in our own existence.\u201d Because this is the first of many changes to come from these walled gardens. Chrome is not the way that we access the internet. Chrome is an extension of the Google and the Alphabet business strategy. Changes to Chrome at the end of the day, they are always going to be Google\u2019s their best interests. Right now it\u2019s being said that it has to do with privacy, but the reality is, is that this is part of a larger business strategy for Google. And so the key way for tracking for these companies is going to have direct relationships. That\u2019s going to be their best method. Companies that don\u2019t have direct relationship and don\u2019t have scale, they\u2019re going to struggle. They\u2019re definitely going to have some problems.<\/p>\n<p><u>Shyam Patil:<\/u><br \/>\nCross-site cookie tracking. Can you just talk about why that\u2019s important now, and then what impact this will have in two years, and who do you think is going to be impacted the most?<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nCross-site cookie tracking is the purpose of these third-party cookies. It allows me to track you across as many different sites as you go. As long as my ad is there and my code is there, I can track you all the way across the entire ecosystem, wherever you go. And what that allows me to do, is it allows me to make sure that I\u2019m giving you the right frequency, that I\u2019m not showing you 80 ads a day. It allows me to write a better experience from a brand perspective, which I know most of you on the call are probably laughing about, because that\u2019s been one of the complaints the longest time about the web is that the experience should be incredible. With all of this technology, I should have such a positive experience with brands.<\/p>\n<p>But typically what ends up happening, is a crappy experience.<\/p>\n<p>I go to a place and I make a purchase \u2013 so they know that I made the purchase and their partners should know that I make the purchase, but now I get bombarded with ads for the next two weeks. And somebody is wasting somebody else\u2019s money.<\/p>\n<p>In the early days of the internet, efficiency was really, really important. And whenever someone would make a purchase, they used to call it an \u2018unpixel\u2019. It was a special piece of code that got fired to let all the partners know that this person made a purchase, stop showing them ads at least for 30 days. It depended upon the frequency of purchases. But don\u2019t show them anymore ads because they just bought today. They\u2019re not going to come back and buy again, but that doesn\u2019t even happen these days.<\/p>\n<p>So it\u2019s funny because, this is going to impact the ad experience, which I think actually needs an overhaul and that\u2019s what consumers really feel about it. That\u2019s going to be the biggest impact is the ability to deliver ads in a targeted manner. And what\u2019s happened is, is that you can get really micro targeted. And a lot of advertisers in a lot of brands, they get really turned on by this. Because I can actually go right now in the world of cross-site cookies, and I can go and I can find individuals who have purchased with the competitor within the last three months, and put it on a major credit card. Now none of that stuff is online, but what\u2019s happened is companies like MasterCard and Visa, they are taking their data they have on consumers. They are matching it into a cookie pool to sync up. When you go and buy ads, you can buy segments of individuals.<\/p>\n<p>And that sounds like wow, the more targeting you do. So you can find people whose lease is about to expire on their truck and this is the third truck that they\u2019ve owned. You would think, \u201cWow, I\u2019m going to target these people. My sales are going to go through the roof.\u201d And yes, these people do buy. But the problem is this \u2013 not only do you have the cost of the ad itself, but now you have the cost of the data on top of it. Now all of this operates in this world of third-party cookies. And the cost of that data sometimes triples the cost of the actual advertising.<\/p>\n<p>And what a lot of advertisers have found is that, this is a really cool thing to talk about. People get very, very excited about it, but the cost is so obscene that it makes profits kind of disappear. So yes, I can acquire customers, but it\u2019s at a cost that is too costly for me to continue to do that strategy. And that\u2019s part of the problem.<\/p>\n<p>So that process is going to disappear. Those companies that are out there that have this data, they\u2019re now going to have to find another way, in order to link that data up. It\u2019s going to impact the ability to target. It\u2019s going to be gone unless they find other ways and it\u2019s going to impact the ability to deliver on the frequency. So all of a sudden, if these companies didn\u2019t figure things out, you would start to see tons more ads or you wouldn\u2019t see any ads at all. Obviously you\u2019re going to see ads, so chances are you\u2019re going to see a lot more ads.<\/p>\n<p><u>Shyam Patil:<\/u><br \/>\nI\u2019ve got a bunch of questions from the audience, but before I get to those, I wanted to just talk one more change just conversion measurement. You talked about this a little bit earlier. There\u2019s also a change that Google made recently. Can you just talk about what\u2019s happening with conversion measurement in two years, and what\u2019s going to be the impact?<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nConversion measurement means the actual outcome. Advertisers buy ads because they want to lead to some sort of conversion. In the world of e-commerce, it\u2019s an actual purchase, in the world of B2B and branding, it may be some other KPI (key performance indicator).<\/p>\n<p>Most companies that have operated in this space, when they sell ads, they typically provide two tags. They provide a tag to put on every single page on the site, which is a retargeting tag. So I know that when people have been to the page, I can go and find them and I can find them on a cross-site cookie basis, so that\u2019s going to kind of go away. And the other piece is a tag that goes on the conversion page or the action page where whatever your KPI is and I provide a tag to go there. That also historically has been a third-party cookie as well too, so I can identify these people that have actually purchased.<\/p>\n<p>A lot of companies have switched to first-party cookies.<\/p>\n<p>Facebook has done that.<\/p>\n<p>They primarily did that to get around the whole Safari change so they could still get conversion information. This is definitely going to impact the smaller companies out there \u2013 they are going to have to update to first-party cookies so they can actually get that information. I see them definitely doing that. Part of the larger picture of conversion tracking, is this movement of the digital landscape impacting sales and the retail world off of the digital world.<\/p>\n<p>Because remember, most of commerce still happens in the brick and mortar. And we\u2019re starting to see more and more brands move into brick and mortar. We saw Amazon move and purchase Whole Foods. We\u2019ve seen a lot of strictly a digital brands do the same \u2013 Warby Parker is one of them. They keep opening retail shops. Indochino, a suit brand for men, they have retail shops as well. You don\u2019t actually buy anything in the shop, but you try things on and then you make your order digitally.<\/p>\n<p>So the ability to link those two together for outside third parties, that is typically been a link that\u2019s been done by syncing a series of third-party cookies together, that\u2019s going to be impacted. That\u2019s incredibly important, because more and more you have companies like Facebook and Google that are wanting to demonstrate that buying ads in the digital world, the virtual world where they live can impact sales in store. You buy ads on Facebook, people are going to go buy furniture at the Ashley Store. Or if you advertise, we can send people into Home Depot. So being able to connect those two together historically has been done through third-party a lot of times utilizing LiveRamp or using some sort of proprietary tool without those third-party cookies, they\u2019re going to have to try other ways to link together.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nThe other impact it was just reported on, is this blockage into the app world. Think about it, if I\u2019m a brand and I buy an ad on Google on page search, I\u2019m usually driving people to my website. So when somebody clicks and they come from Google, I can see that they came from Google, so I know my clicks are working. When somebody goes and they click and I\u2019m sending them to download my app to the app store and when they\u2019re there, how do I know that click actually happened? And then how do I get information out of the app store?<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nSo there\u2019s certain app providers, one of the largest is AppsFlyer. Traditionally what they do with someone like a Google or an Apple is they say, \u201cHey, when that user clicks, send me a click at the same time. Either redirect through me. So when someone clicks, send them to AppsFlyer real quick and then we\u2019ll redirect to where they\u2019re supposed to go. Or send me a click at the same time.\u201d And so what Google is now said is, \u201cHey, we\u2019re not going to do that anymore. We\u2019re not going to send you information on every single click. We\u2019ll send you information for people who actually downloaded something. When somebody converts and they download an app, you send us the data you have on them and we\u2019ll tell you what they clicked.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nSo it\u2019s moving to this model where these walls are getting higher and higher, and they\u2019re saying, trust us. It\u2019s important in business to trust, but you also have to verify and you have to validate. And when those walls are up, it\u2019s impossible to verify and validate. And that\u2019s the problem.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nAnd the app world is not going away. The app world is getting much, much bigger. It\u2019s billions of dollars a year and lots and lots of money is being spent in the app world, to not only to get people to download the app but get people to utilize the app. And so this is another way for the walls to come up from Google.<\/p>\n<p><u>Shyam Patil:<\/u><br \/>\nCan you talk about companies going from being third-party to being first-party cookies? Can you just talk how companies are able to do that? And then I have a few follow ups on that.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nIt\u2019s just a matter of how the computer code work. The key is, is that in order to write a first-party cookie, it can only happen through JavaScript that sits on the side as a piece of computer code, so you have to have JavaScript.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nA lot of companies historically when they traffic out their code to go onsite, it\u2019s typically what they call a one by one image tag. Image tags can only write third-party cookies. An image tag gets called, it doesn\u2019t interact with the browser and it\u2019ll call my jeff.com information and that\u2019s it. But if I put a jeff.com piece of JavaScript code on the site, jeff.com can also, if I\u2019m in New York Times, jeff.com can read and write New York Times cookies, and I can also read and write jeff.com cookies. So it lets me do both first-party and third-party cookies.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nFor years, Google analytics was third-party cookies, because that\u2019s how the whole advertising ecosystem worked was on third-party cookies. They moved to first-party cookies a number of years ago. Facebook, when Safari did away with third-party cookies, Facebook quickly moved to first-party cookies. They still have the option from a privacy aspect I believe, where your pixel that you put on the page can be third-party cookies. I\u2019m sure that\u2019s going to be go away and it\u2019s going to be all first-party.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nSo it\u2019s just a matter of moving from a one by one image tag to a piece of JavaScript. and so it\u2019s just a matter of re trafficking, which is a little bit of a workflow. But over the next two years, that\u2019s not going to be an issue for a lot of folk. But they\u2019re going to want all of the members of this ecosystem, will at least be wanting to get that first- party data themselves when they\u2019re on a publisher site. So they\u2019ll mostly be writing first-party cookies.<\/p>\n<p><u>Shyam Patil:<\/u><br \/>\nAnother question. So sites like Facebook, Snap and others use pixel for targeting remarketing attribution, however those guys impacted by the Facebook as a pixel on Zappos and they can use that today to remarket on their app or tell whether there was a conversion, will that still be possible in a couple of years? What will happen there?<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nAnd that example with Facebook having a tag on Zappos, that tag will be a first-party cookie, which will send information back to Facebook on that user. So they\u2019ll still be able to target people using first-party cookies because remember, they have that relationship with that site. Because remember, it\u2019s Zappos that went and said, \u201cHey, I want to enable this behavior so that I want to retarget within my Facebook feed.\u201d So they\u2019ll be able to send that information back and forth.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nEven if Google came along and decided to do away with that, then Facebook would set up an API, where Zappos would send information server to server. So that when someone landed on the Zappos site, there would be a little piece of computer code that would send information directly back in the background from Zappos to Facebook, essentially would bypass the whole Chrome and Google environment.<\/p>\n<p><u>Shyam Patil:<\/u><br \/>\nAnother question is, you talked about the direct relationship structure. You\u2019ve talked about it quite a bit just now and then you talked about it earlier with Criteo. What\u2019s the mechanics of that? Do you have to go one by one to the publishers? How many direct ties will retailers and publishers just generally have?<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nSomeone like a Criteo, when you start to see the shifting landscape of what\u2019s happened, remember years ago I was a publisher and I would write great content that would get spidered and people would find me. And I would typically get found in the yahoos of the world and now the Googles of the world because that\u2019s where people went to go find stuff. And Google because they\u2019re constantly changing their business strategy over the years, when you now go to that Google page, 80 to 90% of what shows up on your screen at any one time is ads.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nIn fact, it was just a shift that was made with how now the ad display, the little picture next to the ad where it says ad is now smaller than it ever was. The ads aren\u2019t a different color. It\u2019s almost impossible to tell the difference between the ad and the organic content. And so now if I\u2019m a publisher, the chances of me getting found in Google and counting on that strategy is nonexistent.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nIn fact, we just read about a local Boston company, TripAdvisor, because of a Google update they\u2019ve been now moved to the second page. Publishers can\u2019t rely upon a strategy anymore and they\u2019re starting to realize that folks like Facebook, where five years ago publishers built up a whole Facebook strategy, they started working with them and then Facebook\u2019s business strategy changed as well too. They\u2019re realizing that they\u2019re an island on their own. And they need to build content and make content that is right for their readers. They need to understand who the people are that are coming to visit them. That\u2019s the whole purpose behind the paywall besides getting revenue from it, the real purpose is, that the more I can learn about you, the more I can create content for you and deliver the data that you want.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nAnd then an extension of that is having a direct relationship, not only with the brands that I work with, but also the partners and having a sharing relationship so that we can both thrive in this world of wall gardens. Essentially creating my own little sort of walled garden, if you will, because I can\u2019t count on the ever evolving business strategy of Google and Facebook to deliver the traffic that they used to. I need to find ways to create my own audience and curate it.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nYes. To answer your question, you have to go one by one to each one of these. The larger ones is just like an advertising relationship. They\u2019re meeting with them on a regular basis. There\u2019s two sides to the house there at Criteo, there\u2019s the side that\u2019s selling the ad, and then there\u2019s the side that\u2019s developing these longterm relationships. I\u2019ve long said for many years that Criteo has thought it was a one trick pony, because all they\u2019re doing is they\u2019re delivering these dads to advertisers. But as their strategy continues to grow and evolve and the strategies of Google and Facebook evolve, and these relationships that they have with publishers where they\u2019re actually delivering revenue to these folks, I could see where they could expand even more so, and provide even better tools for publishers that help improve their revenue.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nAnd I think that could be an interesting growth area for them, because that\u2019s something that these publishers desperately need and they need a partner and Criteo\u2019s proven to be a partner for them. So that\u2019s a separate side of the house that most people on the marketing side don\u2019t see, but they definitely have it in order to keep those relationships as strong as they are.<\/p>\n<p><u>Shyam Patil:<\/u><br \/>\nIt sounds like in the new framework with privacy sandbox on the Google [inaudible <span>[00:31:31]<\/span> that you don\u2019t expect much impact to one-to-one retargeting. You don\u2019t think guys like Booking.com or Criteo are going to be impacted, because the likes of Criteo will be able to get their first-party cookies embedded in publisher sites. Is that a fair summary?<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nYeah, and their ability to create their own unique proprietary identifier. They\u2019re also sitting on top of massive amounts of data. They\u2019ve got the smartest and the brightest minds in the world. And not only that, it\u2019s not like Google is pulling the rug out from under them and saying, \u201cHey, this is happening on Monday, guys. Good luck.\u201d Yeah. If that were to happen, that would definitely be a problem. But two years, two years in the world of digital, that\u2019s like 25 years in the world of brick and mortar. That\u2019s a lot of time. A huge amount of time.<\/p>\n<p><u>Shyam Patil:<\/u><br \/>\nMaybe more specifically on Trade Desk, had another question come in. It doesn\u2019t sound like you expect much impact at Trade Desk, because of the talent they have as well as their unified ID, their own identifiers. Specifically on Trade Desk, is that going to be their solution, the unified ID that they have? Is there something else? And do you think they could lose share to Google\u2019s DSP? Could Google\u2019s DSP be advantaged by in any way by this? Or do you think they could lose share to Amazon\u2019s DSP? Can you just talk about what Trade Desk solution is going to be or what you think it might be? And then, if they could lose share in the landscape to either Google or Amazon?<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nThe biggest issue that Trade Desk is going to have is, is not in two years, but it\u2019s right now. And it\u2019s the confusion this has created across brands and across advertisers. It\u2019s forcing a lot of them to start rethinking their strategies.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nThe problem is for a lot of them, they\u2019re utilizing the Google ad server and they\u2019re part of that stack, so it\u2019s always a question of do I go all in on this? Or is it better to use different components? Trade Desk over time could actually gain share, as long as they handle the PR aspect, which is to instill confidence in advertisers that, \u201cHey, we\u2019ve got our unified ID. This is going to work.\u201d You want to be independent. That\u2019s the biggest thing is that you don\u2019t want to be dependent on Google to deliver everything.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nIn terms of Amazon, Amazon has done a really good job of enabling that search. People tend to forget how powerful search is and why Google became the pipe that it is. It\u2019s because their search functionality was so much better than Yahoo\u2019s. So now start to think, when you go to search for a product on Google and the results that you get versus when you go to search on Amazon and the results that you get, what is more visual? What provides you better information? You only have to do it a couple times and then all of a sudden your behavior starts to change. Most people probably start to search first now and Amazon. And so as a result, that\u2019s a pipe that Amazon hasn\u2019t really started to monetize just yet. They\u2019re just starting to do a little bit. It\u2019s like the early days of Google when they started a first putting up their ads.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nThe difference that Amazon has and the value that Amazon has over Google is not only can they put up little ads and start to monetize it just a little bit, but once you\u2019re using that pipe, anything you buy from there, they get a piece of it. And not only that, but sometimes they can move you towards, after you\u2019ve clicked on some ads where they\u2019ve made money, you may end up buying a product that they own where they even make a bigger share. And that\u2019s the big piece that the Facebooks of the world and the Google are missing, which is that end piece of commerce. That\u2019s a huge piece that they\u2019re missing that one or more acquisitions that they can make, that would really be a game changer here for them.<\/p>\n<p><u>Shyam Patil:<\/u><br \/>\nSo we\u2019ve talked about Trade Desk, we talked about Criteo. LiveRamp, what do you think is going to be the impact to them from this change?<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nLiveRamp right now, they\u2019ve got this identity graph which is pretty incredible. It\u2019s incredible in the sense it\u2019s kind of like Criteo in the aspect that Criteo has 20,000 publishers that are part of their network that believe in Criteo. And LiveRamp has every single member of the digital ecosystem contributing data. You can now take our identity that we establish for our clients and link it up with a million other things. It\u2019s absolutely incredible. And the value that they\u2019ve created is that they\u2019ve gotten everybody together.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nLiveRamp historically is operated based upon third-party cookies and there will be no impact to them over the next two years, but they\u2019re going to have to evolve that strategy. And again, you\u2019re talking some of the brightest minds there. I don\u2019t doubt them at all. Primarily because every single member of the ecosystem from every single advertising technology company, to every single major brand is contributing data into this.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nWhat\u2019s interesting is who\u2019s not contributing data? It\u2019s the other wall garden. Google will not allow even our tags, which are independent to be on any Google property if we\u2019re carrying a LiveRamp tag. So the walls have been up against LiveRamp for a very, very long time. So most people see the ecosystem where LiveRamp is its own separate walled garden. But the difference is, is that they are a walled garden in that aspect that they\u2019ve gotten everybody to buy into it and contribute data. So incredibly powerful.<\/p>\n<p><u>Shyam Patil:<\/u><br \/>\nSounds like you think that two years, nothing major\u2019s happening in February that\u2019s going to show up the ecosystem. Two years is a long time for the scale of public companies to adapt. So you don\u2019t really see much impact to Trade Desk, Criteo, Ramp, and Facebook, Google from the changes that could happen in two years. Is that a fair summary of your assessment of what\u2019s likely to happen in a couple of years from this change?<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nYes. I\u2019ll add in one piece. One aspect that is going to be impacted has to do with, brands do a lot of what they call brand tracking, which has brands like to know based upon their large global advertising, how do you feel about us? What\u2019s the likelihood that you would refer someone? What\u2019s the likelihood that you would buy? Brands do this and they spend multi-millions of dollars each year. These brand trackers are typically done via surveys. You may see them where the survey pops up on a website. And the way that they do this is that they know whether you got exposed to an ad or you didn\u2019t get exposed to the ad, because they\u2019re tracking technology is there.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nThere\u2019s going to be an impact in the ability of brands to track. And where are they going to be able to do that really well, is that there are companies out there that have people that have opted in where they\u2019re allowing the survey company to look at everything that they\u2019re doing on the web. Every bit of browsing behavior is being passed to them. Even though they may be using Chrome. That\u2019s a separate thing that gets on and Chrome can\u2019t have anything to do with it. And these individuals, they also have it on their TV sets, so you know what they\u2019re watching and they\u2019d have it on their phones too.<\/p>\n<p><u>Jeff Greenfield:<\/u><br \/>\nThe company out there that has one of the trackers if you will, of people that have opted in for that has been Comscore. That\u2019s going to become very valuable and there may be a lot of survey companies that are going to start utilizing their group of people, because that\u2019s going to be incredibly important is to have a group of folks that have opted in that allow everything to be looked at so that they can check on what their impact to the brand has been if they were exposed versus that they were not.<\/p>\n<p><u>Shyam Patil:<\/u><br \/>\nAwesome. If anyone in the audience has any further questions, send them over to me and I\u2019ll make sure I get answers back to you and thank you Jeff so much for taking the time to join us today and share your thoughts. This is the very interesting topic that we all have a lot of questions on, and we\u2019re all trying to figure out.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>0.75x 1x 1.25x 1.5x 2x 0:0039:50 The Impact of Losing Third Party Cookies On MTA &#038; the Advertising Ecosystem Apple PodcastsGoogle PodcastsPlayer EmbedShare Leave a ReviewListen in a New WindowDownloadSoundCloudStitcherSubscribe on AndroidSubscribe via RSSSpotify Google\u2019s announcement about the removal of third-party cookies sent shockwaves thru both the advertising world and Wall Street. \u00a0Is this an [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":3144,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[246],"tags":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v22.2 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>The Impact of Losing Third Party Cookies On MTA &amp; the Advertising Ecosystem - Jeff Greenfield<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/jeffgreenfield.com\/special-edition-the-impact-of-losing-third-party-cookies-on-mta-the-advertising-ecosystem\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"The Impact of Losing Third Party Cookies On MTA &amp; 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